Conversations with Mac.
This is one of those stories that leaves more questions than answers. It started with a phone call from Mac, a total stranger who wanted to have a business meeting with me. We set an appointment a few days later to meet at my office.
Mac was an unusual looking man. He stood over six feet tall, but his body was horribly disfigured. As a five-year-old boy, he was accidentally run over by a loaded hay wagon. His chest was crushed…sideways. As a result, his sternum protruded outward. He jokingly called it his chicken breast because he was often told he looked like a rooster strutting about.
The childhood accident seriously damaged his heart, which was constantly on the verge of failing. In our first conversation he told me that he had numerous brushes with death, but somehow he made it to retirement age. That was the reason for his visit. You see, Mac had a full career developing retirement plans for state employees, municipalities and educators. While helping school districts setting up 403(b) retirement plans many of the teachers and staff ask him to personally handle their plans. He wanted to turn his book of business over to me before his death. I was pleasantly surprised and puzzled, to say the least.
So Mac and I set up multiple meetings to turn over his clients, one school district at a time. He cared for his clients and wanted me to know as much as possible about them before meeting them. He had originally hoped to accompany me on some of these meetings, but his health was worsening. He had to postpone several meetings due to multiple hospitalizations.
I met with his clients and was able to successfully transfer the majority of the business. Mac refused payment when I offered to split commissions with him. His answer was, “Tony, the reason I am giving you the business is that I am dying. I have no use for the money where I am going.”
I was puzzled by his generosity, but his motivations became clearer with each new meeting. One particular meeting comes to mind. I called a woman who was a secretary of a school district. She granted me an appointment and when I went to her home she introduced me to her husband, who worked for the State Police. He gruffly greeted me and proceeded to the next room to watch a basketball game. The woman asked her husband to join us as I was trying to explain that there would be short-term losses by making the transfer, but the new account paid a much higher rate of interest, so the losses would be made up quickly. She agreed to go ahead with the transfer.
Two weeks later answered to phone to find the caller cursing and swearing, calling me a crook and a thief. I had no idea who the caller was, so I told him he had the wrong person. That caused the cursing and threats of bodily harm to redouble. I finally figured out who it was and remembered his lack of interest in joining the meeting where I had explained in detail how his wife could benefit. It was not a simple transaction and needed understanding that he plainly lacked.
I asked him what I could do to make things right. We finally agreed to reverse the transaction and that I would pay any fees that would be incurred. He slammed the phone in the cradle after more threats of bodily harm. I knew he worked for the State Police and I wanted nothing to do with him.
It took me a whole day to regain my composure. The next day Mac paid me a visit. He immediately said, “I hear you talked with _____ yesterday.”
I started recounting how this person verbally threatened me. As I did so, my anger at the situation was mounting.
Mac smiled and replied, “Tony, you have to forgive_____. He has an anger problem because he served in Viet Nam as a Green Beret in some of the worst fighting of the war. He saw all of his platoon killed in action. He is hurting terribly inside and wants to lash out at anything he perceives as a threat.”
He repeated, “You have to forgive him and love him.”
Ouch!
I had to meet with his wife a few days later with paperwork to rescind the transaction. I was nervous when I arrived at their home since I was afraid that he would show up. He didn’t show. I could tell she was uncomfortable, too. Nervously smiling, she said, “Tony, _____ meant you no harm. He was only trying to protect me.”
After that episode Mac started to open up to me. The way he did it was unusual.
After missing a couple of appointments, Mac called me and asked if he could come right over. I had a light schedule that day, so I said, “Yes.”
As Mac walked into my office he said, “Tony, I shouldn’t be here. Last week my heart stopped beating for about a half hour and when the ambulance took me to the hospital the doctors revived me.”
What he proceeded to say amazed me.
Mac explained, “Tony, I had an out of body experience during the time my heart stopped beating which lasted for nearly a half hour. I can remember every detail of my experience. I tried to tell my wife, but it made her very afraid. I tried to tell my pastor, but he wouldn’t believe me. You’re the only one left.”
“I know you are a Catholic and a spiritual man, so you should understand what I am telling you. My minister thinks I just had a vivid dream and does not want to discuss it any further.”
Mac had a weakened heart since his childhood accident. Several times before his heart stopped beating, but he was successfully resuscitated. This time was different.
Here is Mac’s story:
“When my heart stopped beating, I collapsed to the living room floor. The room faded, but I could hear my wife calling 911 for an ambulance. Suddenly I realized that I was no longer in my own body, but floating above it, watching my wife wringing her hands while she waited for the ambulance. Presently, the paramedics arrived and I watched as they tried to resuscitate me, put my body on a gurney and wheeled it into the ambulance. All the while, one of the paramedics was performing CPR on me and intubated me.
As the ambulance drove away, the impressions of my surroundings grew dimmer and dimmer. Instead of following the ambulance, I entered a dark tunnel. As the darkness surrounded me I could see a faraway light, so I began to approach it without any feeling of walking or motion. I realized that I was now a spirit with no arms, legs or body. I was just myself.
As I came closer to the light, my surroundings became clearer. I found myself in a wonderful garden. It was a place of beauty, peace and well-being that I had never could have imagined. I went on and came to the edge of a chasm. On the other side of the chasm stood a man, dressed in white. He held a sword, as if he was guarding his side of the chasm. Behind him was a beautiful city like I had never seen before. It radiated light that lit all of my surroundings.
“You cannot come any further.” He said.
Mac reluctantly turned around as a misty blanket enveloped him. He awoke in a hospital bed with a surprised doctor looking at him with his jaw open. The doctor regained his composure and said, “We thought we lost you. You had no brain waves for more than twenty minutes. We were sure you had died.”
The doctors never once asked Mac what he experienced while he was technically dead. He tried to tell his wife what had happened to him, but she refused to listen. She ran out of the room, crying. She couldn’t bear to hear of it.
“You are scaring me.” She exclaimed
The pastor of his local Methodist church came by to visit. Mac started to relate his story, but he could see the pastor’s eyes glazing over. Finally, he stood up and said, “Maybe you just had a vivid dream.”
“Why are you telling me this?” I asked
“Because I feel that I have to tell someone about what happened and you are the first person who will listen to me.”
I pondered over what Mac had told me after he turned over some clients with me and left. He explained that he had another group of clients to turn over to me and that he would contact me when he put together the files.
It was over a month later when Mac appeared at my office door again. He apologized, saying that his doctor told him he could not drive a car again. His wife had driven him to my office and was waiting for him in the parking lot.
Mac had changed, and not for the better. His entire body sagged. His “rooster” breastbone stood out even more and his clothes were wrinkled and hung loosely on him. He looked cadaverous.
He laid down the client files, but I could tell there was something else he wanted to talk about, as he looked at me intently.
“Tony, I died again. This time I woke up in the hospital morgue after I had been pronounced dead three hours earlier. You can’t imagine how cold I was in there.”
This time Mac died in the hospital while being treated for his heart condition. The doctors did everything they could to resuscitate him, but to no avail. Or so they thought.
Mac related this to me:
“I knew I was dying when they admitted me to the hospital. I made my peace with God about it and wondered what would happen this time. I had read about heaven in a catechism and wondered whether that was what I had experienced the first time. There was no comparison with what the catechism said and my own experience.
While I was in the hospital my heart stopped again. The nurses quickly rushed me into an operating theater as I went in and out of consciousness. The next thing I remember were the paddles the doctors put over my chest to restart my heart. The pain in my chest was searing when they jolted me with the electrified paddles. I lost consciousness after that.
I awoke outside my body. All of my surroundings turned opaque as I floated up through the ceiling. There was no more pain. I could see my body become smaller as I moved further and further away, watching the doctors trying to resuscitate me. I finally floated out of the hospital and lost sight of the operating arena.
I turned to see a light, brighter than the last time. I did not seem to be in a tunnel, but the light drew me towards my destination, nonetheless. As I came closer, my environment transformed and became clearer. My surroundings developed form and substance. A path lay before me and I started to walk along it. There were fruit trees on either side. The fruits were iridescent and each one had its own indescribable beauty and texture. I picked a fruit and ate it. It was amazingly delicious and my sense of taste, smell and texture were utterly refreshed. I thought, ‘I must be in heaven.’
I ventured onward. Along the way, I met my deceased mother and father. My deceased grandparents who cared for me after my accident on the farm came to welcome me. Other family members who had died appeared to me, including a brother who had been killed in the war.
‘We have been waiting for you.’
“Other relatives and family friends appeared, smiling and greeting me. My boyhood dog, a faithful German Shepherd named Sarge, came up and nuzzled my hand. He remained at my side as I continued onward. I felt like I was…”
“…home. That’s it.”
“I came to a river which needed to be crossed. On the other side was a man, dressed in white. His face and garments shone with a radiant light. I knew it was Jesus. I looked into His eyes as he gazed at me. I felt as if I were falling into an abyss of love, understanding and peace.”
“He looked at me with sadness, ‘You must go back. This is not your time.’”
“Instantly, I awoke in the morgue on a gurney. I was extremely cold and shivering violently. I groaned aloud from the agony of being back in my cold, sick, broken body. But I was painfully alive.”
“A startled attendant shouted and ran out of the room. Two doctors rushed in. One of them remarked, ‘I can’t believe it. This just cannot happen. This man had no brain waves over three hours ago. I signed the certificate (of death).’”
“They called for a nurse who came in with several heated blankets and wrapped me in them.”
“After they took me back to my room another doctor came in an asked, ‘What happened to you?’”
“I replied, ‘I died and went to heaven.’”
“He looked at me, astonished, quickly leaving the room without saying another word. During the rest of my stay at the hospital, no one would talk with me. The staff looked relieved to see me finally being discharged.”
‘Tony, I don’t know why I am here. I just want to go back there. But I feel as if I need to tell people that God is real and there is a heaven. But no one will listen.”
“I often wondered about what you Catholics say about purgatory. Now I understand. This is my purgatory. I know I belong in heaven but for some reason, I am not ready yet. But when I am, then Jesus will call me home and I will be reunited with Him and my dear family.”
Mac died soon after our last conversation. I wanted to know more about Mac’s experience, but that was not to be.
Mac’s story has been on my mind for over 40 years. Each time I remember it is as vivid as my first time hearing it. Perhaps the times we are in today require us to hear this conversation with Mac again.
Heaven is real. Jesus is real. You can count on it. Prepare for it.
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